inanna_zuni ([info]inanna_zuni) wrote,
@ 2008-04-04 13:54:00
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Entry tags:csm

Scavenging for Salvage: is it stealing?
I was asked yesterday what I thought should be 'done' about pilots who come along and scavange wrecks while another pilot is still doing the mission that creates them. After all, a large part of the 'payment' on some encounter missions is the drop value, and that means both the loot *and* the salvaging bits and pieces.

Thing is, at the moment, taking the dropped loot is illegal and will get you flagged, but salvaging doesn't, and though some pilots have said that they consider it to be "stealing" too, CONCORD (and CCP) don't. Given that not everyone will scavenge the wrecks they create though - either because they don't have the skills, the equipment, or the time - it is reasonable that the minor profession of itinerant scavenger should be continued, but maybe with a small change.

* If the scavenger is in the same gang as the missioner, then fine; no problem.
* If the missioner is still in the deadspace / mission area, then salvaging their wreck becomes stealing and will be flagged.
* If the missioner isn't still there then it is stealing / flaggable for ten minutes after the ship was destroyed (in case they've gone to a local base to get their scavenging ship) but then becomes free for all to salvageif they don't return in that time.

How does that work for you? Let me know what you think by pressing post a new comment below ...


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[info]dau_katari
2008-04-21 04:49 am UTC (link)
I like that your suggestion will make mission running more interesting by forcing both mission runners and salvage thieves to take into consideration the fact that they may have to fight another player for their loot, rather than getting Concord involved. It'd be great to hear about newer players who would have otherwise remained carebears getting their first PVP kills attacking salvage thieves who fitted too many tractor beams and not enough guns. :)

One suggestion: make salvaging a wreck flaggable for as long as the wreck exists, so that there's no ambiguity about whether or not it's safe to do so. If the mission runner isn't around to defend their junk, it's of little consequence anyway.

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(Anonymous)
2008-04-22 11:06 am UTC (link)
Thing about the ten minute counter is whether the salvage hunter gets to see it or not. Likewise, is the question of the missioner's presence taken as whether they were present when the salvager was first activated? when it succeeds? can you set a salvager to auto-cancel when continuing would become theft?

One point I would make is that people inevitably say that adding flagging for salvagers would mean more pvp. It really wouldn't. It would mean missions become more profitable and less pvp.

I've always taken the view that anything bad that happens to you in Eve does so because you let it, but that's just me. If a system gets swamped with loot thieves I find somewhere with less of them. Space is big and only a few systems provide big rewards for scavenging at any time.

-- Adonis

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Longer timer or allow abandon
(Anonymous)
2008-05-06 05:45 pm UTC (link)
Allow a player to set a default flag if he wants his wrecks to automatically be abandoned, including the loot. some missioners are just running the mission for standings and they have no interest in the wrecks. Other of course want eh loot and salvage.

Allowing a player to abandon a wreck or set all wrecks to be abandoned would solve both sides of the equation without adding the complexity of a timer.

If a wreck and or loot is abandon, then it would appear white in the overview.

Just my idea..

Doctor Grugon

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Re: Longer timer or allow abandon
[info]inanna_zuni
2008-05-06 09:22 pm UTC (link)
that makes a lot of sense too ... most times I'll pop back mid-mission to get my salvage ship, but sometimes I'm not bothered with either loot or scrap (either through lack of time or just not worth the effort) so yes, flagging it as 'unwanted' would be fine too.

Thoguh if I happen to be in losec and you are red to me I might still kill you ;-P

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Tractoring Salvage
(Anonymous)
2008-05-10 11:27 am UTC (link)
If salvage is not theft, why can you only tractor your corp's wrecks?
Surely that should mean that if you are not in the corp and you salvage it, that should be a criminal act?
I mine in an area where NPC rats are frequent, so I end up building up a large number of wrecks in a belt / system while I fill up my little array of GSC's, so I take a very dim view of salvage without permisson, but if someone asks nicely I'll often let em have it. I'm starting to build rigs, so I need the salvage I get from missions and mining rat defence.
I do like the idea of abandoning a wreck, making it available for salvage, with an auto-abandon setting as an option. I would expect to be able to tractor an abandoned weck just like I can my own corp's.

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Re: Tractoring Salvage
(Anonymous)
2008-05-11 09:04 am UTC (link)
Nobody would abandon a wreck. Not if they thought they might get around to salvaging it eventually, nor if it took a click to do it. Eve does not support charity.

If CCP had made wrecks and loot cans separate then the questions about why can ownership features apply to wrecks wouldn't be an issue. Sadly, wrecks/cans are a big contributor to lag which is also why splitting time between when they are owned and when they are free for all is also not an option. Two hours is a short time already, but increasing it to give salvagers a realistic time window to salvage in as well as missioners a reasonable time when they own the salvage is a recipe for more lag.

I can see two solutions really. The first is to allow people to *buy* salvage rights. Missioners from their agent per-mission, ratters from Concord on a per-hour basis priced according to system sec you want it to count in (0.5 is more expensive than 0.7). The second is some kind of anti-salvager module in your ship which locks up your wrecks in the current system. The effort must be in claiming wrecks, not in allowing others to claim them.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Tractoring Salvage
[info]inanna_zuni
2008-05-14 09:27 am UTC (link)
I regularly abandon wrecks if I go lowsec or 0.0 ratting. I'm down their for the CONCORD bonus isk but moreso to salvage the ship; I'm not bothered about its contents. I look at it as converting ammo into parts into rigs ;-P

Cans disappearing because of the long time a missino may take (ie if the missions bonus appplies for six hours then the can probably should not disappear within that time) would probably help new pilots especially; I usually 'kill a level, loot and salvage a level' but most people I know leave that to the end; ymmv. I like your idea about buying / trading salvage rights and its system sec level parameter too.

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Re: Tractoring Salvage
(Anonymous)
2008-05-14 08:19 pm UTC (link)
I can accept that you might leave wrecks and warp off but would you actually navigate through a menu to actively declare that you are abandoning your claim to them?

Lot of work just to be nice to a player who probably won't show up.

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